Transcript

Season 3. Episode 16 Purity Culture Recovery

SPEAKERS

Pandora Villasenor, Dr. Camden

Pandora Villasenor  00:00

When I became a Christ follower, I was single and I was taught sexual abstinence was the way to live outside of marriage. It was a good biblically correct teaching that God used to heal me from the consequences of my previous sexual decisions, which boosted my self confidence and my self worth. Yet as time went by, I saw people in my church speak out against the culture, young people began not just leaving our church but leaving God. What had gone wrong. How did such a good intention biblical practice that had born such good fruit in my life becomes such a point of contention for others. Joining me for this episode of The all gifts podcast is Dr. Camden morganti. Dr. Camden is a licensed psychologist and a college professor of psychology, who writes and speaks on a range of topics centering around relationships, sexuality, marriage and singleness, women's issues and mental health. But her area of research and expertise that caught my attention is her work around purity culture, and its effect on our faith and well being. Listen all the way through to learn more about her story and the practical tools she has to help other people find the gift and sexual abstinence without shame or fear.

Dr. Camden  01:15

You know, I've I've done the right things with dating intentionally, you know, I didn't date around I, I remain abstinent in that relationship and just anger towards God. You know, why didn't I get the reward and why is everyone around me getting married, and some of them didn't necessarily follow the roles so to speak. So had a lot of jealousy about that and just feeling disillusioned in my faith.

Pandora Villasenor  01:48

You are listening to the all gifts Podcast, where we unwrap some of life's most painful topics to find the hidden gift within. I coach people helping them discover ways to transform their challenges into gifts. I'm your host and author of the all gifts memoir, Pandora Villasenor. Thank you for listening to the all gifts Podcast. I am so excited about today's guest, Dr. kamden. Please introduce yourself to the audience and tell them a little bit about yourself.

Dr. Camden  02:23

Okay, well thank you for having me, Pandora. My name is Dr. Camden Morgana T and I am a licensed clinical psychologist and a college professor of psychology. I live with my husband and my two year old daughter in Knoxville, Tennessee. And I also do some writing and speaking right now mostly just on podcasts, you know, since we're not meeting in person, but I'm writing about Christianity and psychology, and women's issues. And in particular, I'm writing a book on purity culture right now. So that's the focus of my research and writing right now.

Pandora Villasenor  02:57

And I want to dig into that today. I think when I listened to your podcast episodes that you've done with others, when I've read through your blog, I am intrigued with this topic. I think it's vitally important for the church today, especially for our younger generation. Please tell us what does purity culture mean?

Dr. Camden  03:18

So purity culture was a movement mostly in the Evangelical Church in kind of late 1990s and early 2000, which is when I was growing up, I'm in my mid 30s. Now. So that's when I was a teenager. And it was the belief in sexual abstinence before marriage, which I do agree is a biblical belief. And I still believe in that and promote that. But it came along with all sorts of other baggage, like, just a lot of gender stereotypes, a lot of shame, a lot of false promises about if you keep yourself pure, then you will get this reward or you will avoid this consequence. And so the intention of those in purity culture, there were a lot of books, a lot of, you know, true love waits rings, and a lot of rallies and purity balls, all of the things that went along with purity culture, the intention was good. But the execution had a lot of, I think, unintended consequences and just unanticipated consequences. And so now, like I said, in my mid 30s, as a professor of psychology, working with college students, and then as a licensed psychologist in private practice working with therapy clients, I work mostly with couples and young women. And then, of course, I'm involved at my church too. So I get to see the effects of purity culture in, in young people, young adults, from 20s 30s and even 40s and beyond just see the ramifications of how purity culture has affected people's shame and their views about sexuality. So that's what I've devoted my work to right now my writing.

Pandora Villasenor  04:52

I think this is so important. We just came through a season in our church where, you know, this whole you know, sort of generation of kids have now looked back and said, "Hey, you know, the way you treated us the way you treated this topic, this purity topic was toxic, and hurtful and abusive, even."  I mean, they've used very strong language. And I think I can totally see, you know, when when they started to express themselves I I for one was like, wow, I, I can see how that fear based, while the intention was good, like you said, The intention is good, but that fear based execution was harmful. Can you tell us a little bit more about those ramifications?

Dr. Camden  05:37

Well, it can run the spectrum. And unlike you said, trauma, I think or abuse, I think on the most severe end of the spectrum would be religious trauma, that a lot of people experience abusive, and really legalistic forms of religion or church teachings. And so that can lead to all sorts of trauma reactions, but just I'm mostly interested in how it affects people's faith. I see a lot of people leaving the church over the teachings about  and losing their faith in God or losing their their religious beliefs, because they did not get the promises that they were told they would get for maintaining abstinence.

Pandora Villasenor  06:17

It's so heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking.

Dr. Camden  06:20

Yeah, it's heartbreaking that people would leave the church over something that probably was well intentioned, but just yeah, just had these really harmful effects that that people didn't realize is going to happen. For you personally, what did that what does that look like? Yeah, so I said, I grew up in purity culture, I read a lot of the books I had a true love waits ring, I had made this commitment in this in this promise to remain abstinent. And along with that, often came very rigid beliefs about dating and courtship. From the book, I Kiss Dating, Goodbye. That was kind of the Hallmark book, The most famous book. So I had my first serious relationship when I was in college, and, and he was my first love my first boyfriend, and we dated for three years, I really thought we were going to get married, and that I was going to have the fairy tale that purity culture promised to me. You know, I was promised as long as you remain pure, you'll have your fairy tale husband and wedding and marriage and just an amazing, beautiful sex life. And it just did not end up that way. We actually broke up. After three years of dating, and I was devastated, I was crushed not only just relationally going through a painful breakup, but spiritually there were a lot of effects on my, on my walk with God and how that affected me. Hmm, yeah, that that sense of like, Where were you God? And I did everything right here. I'm imagining where some of the thoughts may be right. You know, absolutely. I had a lot of anger towards God, because I felt entitled, this kind of ugly sense of pride and entitlement of, you know, I've I've done the right things with dating intentionally, you know, I didn't date around I, I remain abstinent in that relationship and just anger towards God. You know, why didn't I get the reward? And why is everyone around me getting married, and some of them didn't necessarily follow the roles so to speak. So I had a lot of jealousy about that, and just feeling disillusioned in my faith of what's the point of all of this if I don't get the reward, right.

Pandora Villasenor  08:30

And I've known women who are now in their 40s, maybe even in their 50s, who have been in the church since they were late teens, and have been practicing this and waiting all of this time. And imagine what that feels like that, that sense of like, that. That fairy tale never came true. And where does that lead their faith?

Dr. Camden  08:53

Right, yeah. And I have friends now who are older than me who are still single and, and really desiring that. And there's so much pain with that from our culture, but especially from our church culture. And just the fear, I call it the fairy tale myth, the idea that if we remain pure, we'll get our fairytale marriage and it really twists our relationship with God into a transaction where if we do something, then it equals this fairytale marriage. And it's that's just not the way that faith works. There aren't those guarantees like that when it comes to things like purity and marriage. And so it becomes this kind of control where we're trying to control or manipulate God into giving us the outcomes we want based on our behavior, which is workspace. And that's not what the Christian faith is about.

Pandora Villasenor  09:42

Wow. And so you went through this breakup, your faith was struggling, you know, for lack of, you know, lack of a better word. So then what did you do?

Dr. Camden  09:54

Well, I graduated from college, I went off to grad school right away, got my masters and doctorate and Psychology, which is something I really don't, I don't believe I would have done if I had gotten married. I don't believe that the doors would have been open for me to do that. And so that was a gift that came out of this was the gift of my education and being able to go straight into a doctoral program. And finish I was 27 when I graduate with my doctorate So, so very young and but yet I was struggling with my faith through that kind of went through a period of deconstruction, of questioning these beliefs. And still still holding true to the belief in sexual abstinence and infidelity. But um, but just questioning some of the gender stereotypes I was taught about it. And just the easy black and white answers that I was given like that, like I said, didn't come true for me. So I was single for almost all of my 20s I didn't meet my husband until we were in our late 20s. And we got married when we were 13. had our daughter two years later, so yeah, so it was it was very painful, being single for a really long time and seeing everyone around me get married and really desiring that and feeling like I deserved that. And just wondering, like, why those promises hadn't panned out for me.

Pandora Villasenor  11:16

So what are some of the ways that you process that type of pain when you're in the middle?

Dr. Camden  11:22

Mm hmm. Well, in the middle of it, I don't know that I did a very good job of it. You know, it's easier looking back now, of course, because there was so much struggle and anger towards God, like I said, and there was so much jealousy, and there was so much pride and just deep pain and longing for, for marriage and for a spouse. But I think I eventually came to this realization that I am living God's best for me right now, whatever, you know, Wherever I am, whatever season or stage of life that I'm in, and so is she, you know, so is my friends that that are getting married at younger ages than me or, you know, just other people around me, taking my eyes off of the comparison, and then having faith that I am living God's best for me, and that this is his best for me, even though it doesn't feel like the best that I have, in my mind, you know, I have this other idea of what the best would be. But trusting that this is his best, and he is good, even when I don't have the things that I want, even when I live with these unmet longings in this in these desires, and in this pain in my life.

Pandora Villasenor  12:29

Wow, that's very powerful. You know, I shared this with you before we got to recording and want to share it with the listeners that when I told my 23 year old son, Evan, that we were having this conversation introduced him to your blog on your website, he was so amazed by the material. And he said to me, you know, Mom, the girls had it even worse, they had it even worse. And I said, Tell me about that. He's like, well, they were made to feel like it was a sin to wear a tank top, they were made to feel like they were responsible for our lust.

Dr. Camden  13:03

Right?

Pandora Villasenor  13:03

Yeah. And just hearing him say that it just broke my heart. And a couple of days ago, there was a Facebook post from a young woman that grew up in our church. I mean, just really, you know, just letting everybody have it, you know, is one of those moments on Facebook, you know, but just about like, you know, just really like a statement of I am turning my back on all of this, because how harmful all of this has been I mean, this was just a couple of days ago. So what you're talking about is really poignant. And it is so important. It's really important work because I, like you said the intention was good, and it is biblical. But the the, the execution needs to be different. It needs to be different. And so this is your area of expertise. I would love for you to share. How can it be different? I know I've got moms listening, I've got ministry leaders listening, dads listening. And so I think the next question they're thinking is is so what do we do? I mean, if if honoring God is appropriate through abstinence, but the way we've been doing this has hurt our children, how can we do it better?

Dr. Camden  14:11

Yeah, I think that's the big question right now Pandora, because there there have been a lot of people who have come out and denounced purity culture, and, and pointed out all the problems with it, which I've done as well. But there haven't been a lot of really good solutions for what do we want to do if we do want to hold on to this biblical sexual ethic of purity, but we want to do away with the harm that came along with purity culture. So I'll share another thing that had been transformative for me that I would recommend which is just an understanding of God's grace. And God's grace means gift. The word means an unmerited gift that we did nothing to earn or deserve. And so I think realizing like I don't deserve or I'm not entitled to a fairytale marriage, because of the choices I've made helps me really see what I now have as a gift that I didn't deserve. Like when, like I said, when I married my husband, we're almost 30. And we had our daughter Two years later, we named her grace. Because grace, yeah, it just made such an impact on me, realizing it's not just a theological concept when we think of God's grace of his, you know, his death in Jesus's death on the cross for us and forgiving our sins, but also just the many unmerited gifts that we have in our lives. So that's, that's something that I would emphasize is that we want to look at the things that we get in life. One is rewards that we've done something to earn. But as just examples of God's grace and His gifts to us,

Pandora Villasenor  15:48

and you talked about transactional. Earlier, you mentioned that word like a transactional relationship with God, how is grace different in your mind? When you think about that,

Dr. Camden  15:59

Yeah, well, grace is the opposite of a transaction, because it's, it's unmerited and undeserved, so I didn't do anything to earn it, I didn't do action A to get result B. You know, and when you, when you choose out those concepts in your mind, I guess, and you divorce your actions, from the results or the consequences, you can see that the gift that you've been given was not a result of your own work, whether you made mistakes or not. And that's the flip side of it is, I call it the damaged goods myth that people who do have premarital sex or who are even who suffer sexual trauma that was not of their own doing and not their own, their own fault or choice can often feel like damaged goods because of purity culture. And so just as somebody who remains pure doesn't earn or deserved things, someone who did make sexual mistakes, or had things happen to them, that was not their choice or fault, doesn't deserve punishment, or something bad. Does that make sense?

Pandora Villasenor  17:00

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think it's so empowering to realize that and, you know, it's, you know, everything with God is a paradox, it's empowering, to realize we don't have the power. You know, it's so an incredible concept, that humility leads us to a place of transformation, when you're able to say, you know, this is a gift, and I don't deserve it. And nothing that I get is because of what I have done. On either side, whether it's something bad with a punishment or something good with a reward. That's just not how God's economy works.

Dr. Camden  17:36

Right. Exactly.

Pandora Villasenor  17:37

Yeah. Now, if you were to talk to that, that the girl that I was referring to, that had a Facebook post from a couple days ago, really just it you know, just pain, pain is all throughout this statement that she's making. And, and she's been hurt. And she's been, you know, obviously, there's a lot of unresolved feelings there. And this was the platform she chose to like, come out and, and share. I'm sure you work with women, especially young women like this all the time. What What would you say to a woman like that, or even a young man, because you know, they may not have it on the same level, or the same issues, it does affect them according to my son. So I would love to hear just what would you share with somebody that's going through that right now.

Dr. Camden  18:25

I would definitely recommend professional therapy. You know, as a therapist, I'm obviously a big advocate for that. And I think just having someone in safe and trustworthy, that you can walk through that pain with is just invaluable. Because you need to have that pain validated. And you need to be able to grieve the pain too, to grieve the messages that you were taught, the results you thought you were going to get that didn't happen, you know, I had to grieve those years of singleness. And the pain I had. And during those years, and even now just everyone, you know, everyone around me and I live in the south too. So everyone gets married young and so and so sometimes it feels like I got a late start, and people my age have kids much older than me and, and so just just not comparing myself to that, you know, but but also validating the pain that I do have the grief that you have from just a different life than maybe you expected. And that even goes for people who are married because I see married couples, or married women who were affected by purity culture to that their sex life has not been easy, has involved pain or just sexual problems. And it's not been a source of pleasure, like they were told and promised by purity culture, but it's really been a source of frustration and disappointment. And so that's something to grieve to.

Pandora Villasenor  19:47

I think that gets harder as they get older in the waiting and the abstinence too by the way. Just in my personal experience and experience of some of the couples that I know it's you know if you know they've been abstaining from sex all through their, you know, late teens 20s. And then now they're getting married in their 30s, late 30s. It's just not this like switch that you can just flip on. And all of a sudden, like, you know, I've been, you know, suppressing these urges. And now all of a sudden, we're just going to have this like, amazing intimacy. It's just, it's, it's difficult. It's not, and then nobody talks about that. And so it's this surprise, and then it makes you feel like, Oh, my God, what's wrong with us? And again, going back to those false promises, you just feel like, it must be me, it must be us, we've done something wrong. And I speak from experience because my husband was, you know, baptized, and committed himself to the Lord, late in his teens and remained abstinent until we were married. And he was 39. So yeah, so this is, this is from personal experience. Yeah, it's a hard transition and it's okay. I mean, we have a beautiful marriage. And it's all good, but had we not had in our minds that it was going to be something else, it might have set us up for just a more relaxing, you know, transition into our marriage.

Dr. Camden  21:11

Right. Yeah. And I pulled out the flip switch myth so that you were right, exactly right. When you said it's not a switch that is easily flipped when you've been repressing sex, or believing that sex is wrong, or dirty or sinful. And so some of the work that I do in therapy is working before marriage to prepare couples and, and individuals to deconstruct those beliefs that they had about sex and replace them with healthier, biblical views of sexuality. And then for married couples, the same thing, you know, they still have some of those, those beliefs that have to have to be changed and have to be challenged and replaced with biblical truth, but also working on the sexual part of their relationship, so that they have realistic expectations, and realizing that sex involves a lot of work and communication, and just mutual like teamwork. And it's not an automatic switch flip. So yeah, so I recommend therapy and seeing somebody who's trained in sex therapy, specifically, if listeners have have those sexual problems in marriage and want to work on those,

Pandora Villasenor  22:20

This topic is so deep, and it's so ingrained in our identity and in our relationship with God that I love what you're sharing. And I think it's important that it is somebody who's licensed and whose expertise is in this area, wouldn't you agree?

Dr. Camden  22:36

I do. Yeah. And just the years of schooling and training and all the work that I see that that goes into being licensed, I have so much respect for that. And you're just held to a higher ethical standard and, and just a higher level of training than somebody who is not licensed or does not have an advanced degree in the mental health field. So there's a time and a place for pastoral counseling or biblical counseling. And sometimes I do refer clients to also talk with their pastors about a biblical view of sex, but really to work on the sexual problems to work on the the beliefs that have become ingrained in the shame that people carry, it takes a mental health professional,

Pandora Villasenor  23:20

Absolutely, I think about I've been, you know, a big proponent of therapy with a licensed clinician, which has helped me overcome so many of my early childhood wounds with abuse and neglect, and then carrying that shame into my adulthood. And so I'm a big believer in that, but at the same time, you know, I coach, you know, I go to, I have a spiritual director, I think there's so many great resources out there. But I will say, I do think this particular opportunity, I don't want to call it an issue, has such like, deep, you know, seated, you know, sort of beliefs. There's lies that the enemy, like uses this particular area of intimacy, of sexuality, of purity, to really attack our identity. And when you get to something so special as our identity in Christ, then now we're talking about some stuff that we really, I think, need that professional to help us untangle some of those things, especially when you learned it through a trusted faith community.

Dr. Camden  24:31

Right? Yeah, right. And churches, our faith communities now have to find a better way in a different way to talk about purity too. And so going back to your question about how can some of the parents that are listening to this podcast, how can they they teach their children a different way or how can pastors or counselors teach their their clients or congregation a different way? I really recommend that people don't emphasize rewards and punishment. You know, anytime we emphasize doing something to gain a reward or to avoid a punishment, it's just not successful for long term, long term growth you know that might work for for little children who are trying to get a piece of candy if they you know, do something you ask them to do or something but but to to maintain abstinence, which is so counterculture cultural, we have to have a deeper why we have to have a deeper reason for it than just a reward.

Pandora Villasenor  25:33

Mm hmm. I think about it's so it's secular, and it's academic or business related totally outside of the sphere of spirituality, but I think about Daniel Pink's book, Drive, which is about motivation. And he talks about, you know, this, what does he call it, carrots and sticks don't work for the long term, it's not sustainable. And he calls, you know, that sort of rewards and punishment carrots, because you know, you're dangling the carrot, and he calls it sticks, you know, because you're afraid that someone's gonna come and beat you. Like, those things don't work in leadership, like when you lead a group of people, and you lead them with that it is not sustainable. And yeah, on the flip side, he talks about, like, what are some sustainable ways to motivate people, and one of them is having that sense of purpose, or like you just said, The Why there's a deeper purpose here. And also, one of the things he talks about is having autonomy, having that sense of like, I've made this decision, and I'm owning my purpose, and I'm owning my why, and many other great things. But it's interesting how even in the secular world, they have landed on more appropriate ways to motivate people. And we could kind of reverse engineer that back into the church probably in the way that we're motivating. And not just in this area. But in every area. I write, and I talk a lot about, you know, my identity as a sinner. Just last week, I had an my episode up about addiction, how, you know, addiction recovery, you know, for years, yes, it kept me sober, to identify with my addiction and say, Hey, I'm Pandora, and I'm a recovering addict. But it didn't sustain my increased spiritual evolution. In order to have increased spiritual evolution, I couldn't identify with being an addict, I needed to identify with being a beloved child of God. You know, and so there is a shift happening, I hope, in the church, as you know, I'm sure you, you know, you've used the term deconstruction, and many are talking about that right now. We we're deconstructing, I think a lot of these things that were built maybe in the 80s and 90s, with the way the Evangelical Church, you know, sort of operates. And so it's a beautiful time I think of of deconstruction, because when we're in deconstruction, then the next phase are simultaneously not that they're linear is reconstruction. And that's exciting.

Dr. Camden  27:54

Right? Yeah. And I love I love how you shared about your journey, Pandora and going from an I am an addict to I am a beloved child of God. And yeah, I'm, I never use that terminology with clients. I never say, oh, you're an addict, or you're, you're depressed, I say you have depression, or you have been. Just that small change in language makes a big difference. But yeah, that was great information from Daniel Pink's book. And I think that definitely applies here that rewards and punishments are not going to be sustaining, really past adolescence. It's, it's really not going to be enough of an incentive, or enough of a reason for people to obey God's teachings about sexuality. So in my writing, I'm writing about how to find that deeper why and how to base that in obedience to God and faithfulness to his teachings, wanting to honor God, rather than wanting to get some reward from him.

Pandora Villasenor  28:54

I love that and that, that is so much more motivating when you can really make that head and heart connection to who God is, and who we are to God. It's a two fold, beautiful, you know, two sides of the same coin, who who God is truly who he is, not who we think he is not who you know, we've projected right from our own fathers or our own, you know, patriarchal, you know, structures but, but truly, who God is, and then who we are to God like that, that when you really can land on those two things and land on the truth, then it is so inspiring and it really is motivating because now you're coming from this deep rooted place of Wow, the God of the universe loves me, me, not me, humanity, but me. And yes, and all of humanity as well. And that, that honoring him and that that's it right there. You know it rather than this, like, you know, like you said, you know, reward and punishment transactional relationship. I love it.

Dr. Camden  30:00

Yeah, it's about honoring him with our, with our faithfulness with our in our words and deeds. Not that that earns us anything or that that makes God love us more. But as a way to show gratitude for his grace, I think his worthiness for all that he's done. Yes, yeah, an expression of our own gratitude for the grace He's given us and our own recognition of his holiness. And worshiping him with our with our lives, and with our sexuality and the choices that we make.

Pandora Villasenor  30:34

Wow you are doing such important work, I cannot wait for your book to come out, which is so so exciting. Before we move on to just the last bit about, you know, helping our listeners find you and where they can get  more information. Can you just summarize for us? I know you touched on it a little bit. What have been the gifts of coming through this challenge? I know you mentioned your academic path, what other gifts have you found through overcoming this challenge of purity culture?

Dr. Camden  31:05

I think the number one is I feel like I have a much deeper faith because of this. Because I wasn't afraid to deconstruct my faith. But to maintain my identity as a Christian, I think a lot of times we look at deconstruction as deconverting. And I very much believe that deconstruction doesn't have to mean deconverting, you can maintain your Christian identity as you work through these, these beliefs, and come out with a more complex and nuanced and deeper faith at the end. And that's, and that's what I feel like I've done I feel like it's a faith with a lot less black and white answers, which sometimes can feel safer, and you know, easier. But it's a faith that's, that's much more deeper and truer for me. And that's not afraid to wrestle with, with hard questions or to question myself and question why I believe the things that I believe so the the deeper faith that I've come up with is the biggest gift. And then like I talked about just a better understanding of God's grace, and looking at the gifts that I've been given as his grace, because I just had a bunch more works based view before of where, you know, I was, did the right things was well behaved, you know, and, and pleased people and did well in school and things like that. And that, that, that gave me a sense of value. But now it's, it's not about what I do, it's about who I am in Christ, that gives me a sense of value. So an understanding of His grace, and obviously, my husband and my family now, and that's the biggest expression of God's grace that he's he's given me is being able to just be a better wife and mom, now than I would have been had I not gone through this process had I not gone through this, these challenges in my faith, and in this in this struggle in my relationship with God. And using that in my work, obviously. So being able to, to take that into the therapy room with the empathy that God gives me for my clients, and then also take that into the courage that I have, when I speak and write about these topics and, and call out some of the these myths like we're talking about, but also holding on to whatever what I believe is biblical still.

Pandora Villasenor  33:23

I think that we would never want to have the challenges in our lives, you know, no one wants to be motivated by shame and fear. Nobody wants to have a chronic illness. Nobody wants to be, you know, a parent at 15. No, but you know, there's all these different challenges that we talked about on The All Gifts podcast, and in my my book, All Gifts. But what's beautiful about this, and why, why I do this, is because stories like yours are about taking the challenge. And again, this isn't like "oh, everything happens for a reason. So you know, that challenge was meant to happen." Not necessarily, we do not know why things happen. But, you know, rather than focusing on the why of a challenge, and why it happens, and we do go through those phases, but working through it, and getting to a place where it actually becomes a gift of our work and our message. And and then we help other people and we give them hope by hearing like a story like yours, or a story like mine, or any of the guests that come on here, so that people can go, Wow, if she made it through that in that way, then even if this isn't something that I've struggled with, I can make it through this my current struggle, my daily struggle today, you know, and, and so I'm so grateful that you've shared your story and you are sharing your gifts and that you are using what's happened to you to to make it your life's work to help other people overcome this challenge. That's extremely encouraging. And I'm so happy that you were here today. So tell us how can our listeners find you because I've been combing through, there's so much there and I definitely want them to learn more from you. So tell us how to find you.

Dr. Camden  35:03

They can find me on my website, which is www.DrCamden.com. And that's Dr. Camden and the same name on Facebook and Instagram, Dr. Camden. I would point listeners to my first article about this, which won a writing contest for Christians for Biblical Equality. And that article is called Five Purity Culture Myths. So that will describe the five myths that I've identified and the effects of those myths. And then you can also take a free quiz on my website that I developed called Which Purity Culture Myth Affects you. And that asks you questions about each of the five myths and you answer the questions. And then you can see which of those myths is most affecting you or maybe the ones that you bought into the most as you start this process of deconstruction and healing from the effects of those myths?

Pandora Villasenor  35:49

Yes, I love it. And on your website, too, are there any you know, just resources, other resources, things that they can link to even if they're not in Knoxville, Tennessee that, you know, maybe some therapy resources or any recommendations that you make for them?

Dr. Camden  36:05

Yeah, on my blog, I've got several articles about how to find a therapist, how to know when you need therapy, and how to pay for therapy so that I have a series called therapy basics. And then I just have several articles on purity culture, how to talk to your kids about purity, or how to raise them with shame free sexuality. And then other blog articles about setting boundaries and just different topics like that. So So I write about women's issues to like I said, in gender equality, so there's some some articles about marriage and having a gala. terian marriage. So yeah, so several resources that people can access on my blog.

Pandora Villasenor  36:42

Man, I could talk to you all day because we didn't even get into the gender equality and the patriarchy that would have been amazing to talk about. But you know, we can always go to your website to learn more. I am so excited listeners for you to do that. I believe that this is something that if it affects you, if it affects your children or someone that you love that you get the help and the resources that you need. Dr. Camden, we are grateful for you and thank you so much for being here today.

Dr. Camden  37:09

Thank you, Pandora. I really appreciate you having me on and having this conversation with me.

Pandora Villasenor  37:13

Have a wonderful day.

Dr. Camden  37:15

Thank you.

Pandora Villasenor  37:16

Thank you for listening to The All Gifts Podcast. I'm your host Pandora Villasenor. I have a passion for coaching people to overcome the challenges in their lives by helping them to discover ways to transform those challenges into gifts, gifts of accomplishment, perseverance, strength and resilience. But most of all, peace and self love. Go to www. allgiftsbook.com to join us for exciting updates on the launch of all gifts the book, to sign up for our newsletter and other freebies. That's allgiftsbook.com